Continuous Kicker Problem

[Peter481_old]

I've just changed my kicker to continuous by simply replacing the control line with Marlow Excel Racing 5mm (braided dynema core), and splicing the ends together. It worked really well at Norfolk.

However since then (and despite being advised to the contrary) I've found that the white spliced part, which has the dynema on the outside, is slipping out of the cleat almost all of the time.

Worst still, now the normal part of the rope has now started to slip out of the cleat on the opposite side of the boat to the side that I'm using - AARRRGGHHH. It seems to jump out more on port tack (i.e. out of the starboard cleat), but that might be more to do with the course that was set on sunday!

I still have the standard (Servo?) cleats that came with the boat.

Wrong string, wrong cleats, worn cleats, any ideas???

Peter.

[david1080_old]

Peter

I am hoping to change my system to continuous and was speaking to Richard Pakes about it at the Nationals. I think he had a similar problem because the spliced control line was too short, event though it did not look it. Perhaps he will be able to shed some light on the problem.

David 622

[Peter481_old]

Ahh - I see! I saw Richard's boat at Haversham in April, and more or less copied his system.

Unlike a traditional continuous system where the line from the cleat feeds onto a block (e.g. near the bridle) then through a shock-cord take-up system to keep the line tight and straight, he has the spare line between the cleats just loose in the boat.

Perhaps I am effectively wrenching the far side out of the cleat when I pull on the near side. I'm going to do some dry land tests this weekend.

Some of the guys at our club suggested a couple of things:

1) Better blocks
2) gently rubbing the line with sandpaper to take the sheen off it!

thanks,

Peter.

[Peter481_old]

PS: we're hoping to be at Blithfield so can compare notes with any interested parties!

Peter.

[david1080_old]

Finally had time to set up my continuous kicker system last weekend. Looked good and initially worked well, then I also noticed the far end of the sheet was pulling out of the cleat. This was despite leave extra length on the continuous sheet. Decided would have to investigate further before putting the nova back on the water and have found the cause of the problem.

This picture show the sheet held securely in the cleat



and this one the point at which the sheet "pops out" from the jaws



As you can see it only has to be raised about 5mm (half way up the jaws) and slightly less when it is not under load. So when I released the kicker on one side, a ripple would travel down the sheet (a bit like when you flick a rope) and this was enough to make it jump out. To prevent this the sheet needs to be held down near to the bridle by a shock cord, loop or pulley. This prevents the ripple passing down to the cleat. Un-modified boats don't seam to have as many problems with the sheet jumping out as they generally just lay flat on the deck.

I overcame the problem by feeding the continuous sheet through the bridle fairlead.



Tested this out on Sunday and found it worked really well, the sheet did not come out of the cleat once. The cascade kicker is really smooth and requires a lot less effort to adjust, would definitely recommend it. I have also made my rake adjuster continuous, its so good not to be diving across the boat each time I forget to re-adjust the controls. Now plan to make all the control lines continuous, although need to think about how I feed them to the cleats as you can only pass one through the fairlead.

The angle which the cleat is mounted is important, take a look at how the sheet enters the cleat in this picture



As you can see it enters the jaws about half way up and reduces the overall grip by about 30-40%, this is because only the lower part of the jaws have metal inserts which actually hold the sheet. For best effect the sheet should enter the cleat on the level, therefore I intend to fit angle pads to level up the cleat




I tried using 5mm dynema but found it impossible to pass the outer over the splice, 4mm however was very easy to work with. The only problem I had was joining the two ends of the outer, tried fusing them with heat but just ended up with solid outer that split as they passed over the blocks. I ended up stitching the outers through the inner core with some whipping cord. Anyone got a better method?

David 622

[Peter481_old]

Hi David,

Great post - very informative, thanks.

I also had a look at mine at the weekend. I seem to be able to pull mine on really securely on the starboard side, then still pull it out again by simply pulling the kicker on on port. What seems to be happening is that the jaws themselves are twisting upwards on that particular cleat - i.e. bearing wear on the cleat itself. It doesn't happen to the port side cleat.

I also didn't manage to get 5mm to cover like Richard Pakes has, and opted to do a simple splice where the inner ends up on the outside. This definately slips in this sort of cleat, but a friend said that it should work fine. I suspect that it doesn't work with the servo cleats as well as the Harken ones on his 49er!

Another friend suggested this splice...

www.neropes.com/SPL_DoubleBraidConstant.aspx

It's good to hear that 4mm works better - I would have no hesitation using 4mm: i.e. Not worried about using thin string if it works.

Anyway, I've ordered some Harken cleats to give them a try (I need an additional cleat for my rig adjuster anyway).

w.r.t cascade kicker: I still have the old-style, but am using 3mm D12 which is increadibly free-running and very strong. I appreciate that it doesn't give the extra travel (1/4 of the distance instead of 1/6), or the extra purchase (16:1 instead of 12:1) but it does make it a pleasure to use! I guess one advantage of the cascade is that the extra purchase reduces the load on the cleats.

Peter.

[david1080_old]

Thanks Peter,

I can confirm the 4 mm was very easy to splice. The outer slid easily over the splice. I slid the outer right over the splice so that the joint was a good distance from the spliced area.

David.