Battens

[Matt]

Hi Guys,
We have now developed with HD Sails and Contender a full set of Super Nova battens.
These battens have been designed, developed and produced exclusively for the the Super Nova sail. They are made of epoxy and fully tapered, they 'flatten' the leach and move the draught forward in the sail. They make the sail much easier to read and use. The boat is now much easier to power up / de-power, steer in waves and produce a much more 'conventional' sail shape. The battens have been under extensive development over the last 6 months and we have already sold quite a few sets to well known Super Nova sailers. If you need any further information or would like to buy a set, please give me a shout.
Matt Biggs
Birmingham Dinghy Services.

[sam.spoons]

How much does a set cost?

[Pete1177]

I believe a set costs about £168 - Matt will confirm.
Pete
SN1177

[sam.spoons]

Not cheap but if they make a worthwhile improvement.......

[Sunsetstrip]

At that price are they not a major component? What's happening to the one design concept? Too many expensive developments will make people ponder whether it is worth joining the class

[simon1228]

I'm interested.

Collection possible?
Where are you based? Opening hours?
Postage £?

Thanks.

[Pete1177]

Matt is based in Perry Barr, Burmingham. I believe he can arrange a courier for about £15.
Pete
SN1177

[Kevin]

That's a good point, at £168 plus delivery it's not exactly a cheap alternative. How does this fit into the one design concept of the Supernova. Does an upgrade like this have to be put forward and approved at the AGM.
The manufacturer claims improved performance with the new batten set. So if you have a spare bit of cash you can buy an advantage, sounds like an arms race to me.

Kevin
1078

[Kevin]

Have the performance claims made by Birmingham Dinghy Supply for the new batten set been independently tested?
Will the new Supernova mainsail currently under development come with the new battens?
I'll want to purchase a new mainsail for 2018, that'll cost approx £500, but should I replace the standard (and now inferior battens) with the improved set increasing the overall cost to around £700. That's not an attractive option if you sail an older boat.
I'm no Luddite when it comes to development. The Supernova allows the owner to tweak the deck layout as they please, this won't improve performance but improves your 'sailing experience'. Minor low cost changes to fittings are fine. I've just replaced the main halyard cleat with a Spinlock clammer, much better, no more halyard slip, but I won't sail any faster.
The winners here are the supplier of the new battens. Are we being taken for mugs, if the battens are that good then they should approach our manufacturers and sail provider and look to replace the standard supplied batten with the new 'improved' version.
I want value for money when it comes to after market purchases. Are we getting it here? What does the committee think?

Kevin
1078

[Merlin]

I am of the opinion that the current sail, with the standard battens, is not a good shape, because the fullness is too far aft. Since joining the class 12 months ago I have struggled to read and set the sail up using the standard controls, particularly in strong winds. The problem is exacerbated when I try to depower. Pulling on the Cunningham and the Outhaul pushes the fullness back even further making the boat slow, so I try not to depower. That means I have to ease the sail and sail lower up wind, which puts me at a disadvantage.

Having the sail redesigned and supplied by a premier league sail maker, would almost certainly significantly increase the cost of a sail. So if the tapered battens achieve a similar result, why not supply new sails without battens, but have a choice to either buy standard battens or tapered battens. After all how many perfectly good sets of battens are thrown away every year, just because a sail is replaced. This would have the benefit of reducing the cost of replacing a sail, and would be greener, because you would just transfer the old battens to the new sail.

I have bought a set of new battens and they do exactly what Matt explains. I can certainly read the sail better, the fullness is further forward and run to the leech is flatter. The telltales do what they should do, which to me is a massive improvement. Ok tapered battens cost £183 delivered, but when you consider this is a a one off cost, it is quite reasonable, when you consider the alternative to improve the shape of our standard sail. Whether the sail makes the boat faster is debatable, but it does make it easier to sail.

Steve
1196

[Matt]

Hi Guys, Sorry for the delay in a reply, been really busy sorting Supernovas (for the Nationals) and Merlins (for Salcombe week) Anyway, battens, the battens have been designed to make the boat easier to sail, by 'forcing' a better sail shape. I have never claimed they will make the boat faster, they will make the boat easier and less demanding to sail. You need less main sheet movement, so you don't have to 'dump' armful of main in the gust then have to pull it back in, in the lulls. The sail is better to read, make the current controls work better, basically make the boat just easier, which is a good thing for me and possibly for other people with the same fitness regime as mine. Perhaps if you are less tied, you might sail quicker? The cost is expensive £168, but I can assure you all, that I don't make any money on these battens, (this has been done for a class I am involved in) and the idea is you keep them and transfer from sail to sail, so the cost over a few years, is not too bad. When we first came up with the extended goose neck, people thought that was expensive, but we have fitted about 40 of them and down wind sailing is now really tactical and they don't break. We are currently out of stock of the battens, with the next delivery due in about 3 weeks (10 sets), please give me a shout if you are interested or just want to have a chat about them on 07976881678. Have a great Nationals everyone, sorry to miss it this year, Matt

[Kevin]

Ok I'm hearing what you say, if the standard battens are not tapered than that's a bit rubbish, But But But, we all sail with the same rubbish which is what a one design is all about.
Can someone from the committee please reply, are boats fitted with the new battens out of class? I find it difficult to delieve the class is about to have its National Championship and a select few with deep pockets will be using a non-standard upgrade.
How does the class approve significant equipment changes. Shouldn't they be tested, then the committee make a recommendation, which is put up at an AGM. That's how many other classes would do it.
The manufacturer are a bit naughty in this respect, they have made claims about a new product and stated they have already sold the product to several Supernova owners. That creates interest as there will always be people in any class of boat who want the latest gear and don't want to be disadvantaged.
Surely this is one for the committee of our 'strict one design' to sort out. If they make a positive endorsement then I'll probably be in the queue to buy a set....oh but they're out of stock!!

Kevin

[Matt]

Kevin, The battens have been advertised since May, people have had an option if they want to try them/ buy them. They were only developed because of the feed back about the sail. People have been taping extra battens to the existing battens for the last few years to try and create a 'reasonable sail shape'. A few on the commitee have brought them. I spoke to the builders, to see if it was ok to develop these in the first place, I was told yes, it's ok.The Supernova class is a good class and I think a small (in relative terms) slow development, with certain aspects to the boat will only encourage growth in the class. The boat is no quicker, just easier to sail. If the boat was so 'strict one design' you wouldn't be able to change anything and the class would not encourage new members. Major changes (adjustable shrouds / racking rigs etc) do need a committee to control, as was seen at the last AGM. With regards to the battens, I've sailed round last year with extra battens taped to the standard battens to straighten the leach, completely in class. It works ok, try it and almost no cost. Other developments, in the last year, that have been available are all to make the boat better to sail.
I understand where you are coming from, one design should be one design. But it's not and it's not a laser???? Things change, polyester to epoxy?? Adjustable lowers?? Whats next? This is a small development like the extended gooseneck, kicker calibration, kicker take off point, sliding traveller etc. If there was no scope for any innovation, I for one wouldn't sail in the class. Matt

[Kevin]

Hi Matt
I understand where your coming from. I bought my Supernova this year on the strength of the Llandudno Nationals I helped at last year. We have a small growing fleet at the club and I can see one of the new owners struggling with the rig when the wind gets up. I'm surprised the standard battens are not tapered. My other boat is a Sprint 15 cat and as with the Dart 18 we've been using class specific sail battens for years and they are awful (fibreglass, expensive, tendency to delaminate, snap if you fall on the sail etc etc), but they are tapered and give the sail a nice shape and the boat is very easy to handle even in a blow.
The Dart 18 (like the Laser) is an international class and getting minor changes to the boat is almost impossible as everything has to be agreed 'worldwide', the 18 still uses fittings that were developed 40 years ago when the boat was first launched. The Sprint 15 however doesn't have the same class status and has developed and changed over time to the cat it is now. Equipment changes, things are tested, proposals come to the committee and most stuff gets passed and the Sprint 15 moves on. I remember the bad old days sailing a Laser with terrible control lines, look how long it took to get that sorted out (that's the problem with a committee system).
Fibrefoam battens were developed for the 15 and can be purchased, but are not allowed by the class for a variety of reasons (mostly cost). Could be worth you speaking to Windsport about your new product.
If the Supernova Committee endorse the new battens than that's ok, but apart from this thread on the forum I haven't heard much about this subject.
I would like to try out the new battens on the sea. The four Supernova helms (including me) at Llandudno could give them a good ragging and provide some feedback. That might make the expense of replacing the standard equipment worth it.

Regards
Kevin
1078

[sam.spoons]

Surely a 'better' sail shape must make the boat faster? These battens should move the max draught forward and flatten the after part of the sail, both desirable in the search for the most efficient foil shape.

In a perfect world the draught of the sail will be where the sailmaker places it but untapped battens don't support this properly, in practice they will tend to move it aft (because they are, relatively, too stiff at the front where the draught is deepest and too soft aft where the sail is cut flattest), tapered battens, OTOH, will move the draught forwards (in reality their bend curve should match the draught cut into the sail by the sail designer) and help the sail give something closer to an ideal aerodynamic shape.